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#158 - Primeval 3 v 3, East vs West
#41
(01-17-2015, 03:23 AM)Jumpingfist Wrote: Let me at least go through the thought process and not only how it is possible but actually rather likely to have the two regions as the Ranger happen.

When I approach a primeval type game I play similar to a Titan match. I take the kid glove off and play very aggressive.  Meaning I am not going to be casting invisible for my wizards in combat, I am not going to scout where my emissaries are going I am going to try and claim as many resources as possible as fast as possible until I start mixing it up with the enemy.

The RA has incredible reaction levels which make it very possible to become friendly quickly in multiple regions.  RA also has more than a full court full of emissaries which includes 4 at count level or above meaning he can take multiple cities in friendly regions

Turn 1 I am already looking where my second region will be based on my set up the best choice is R10 sometimes the capital and secondary town in R10 could be set so R8 is the better choice.   My secondary town started just below the upper R10 mountain range.   Knowing the BL capital starts somewhere in the mountains I purposely moved through two of the mountain squares in R10 vs taking the less movement point of one plains and one mountain.  I split off a patrol from my main group to add additional scouting in R9 with my groups.  Most my groups forced marched because gaining the region is huge at this early stage.  Other things for turn 1 basic stuff like enamor to friendly set 991(which I would not do now that it can wait).   I trained both lvl 3 agents to lvl 4 for future scouting.  I moved two emmies into the city to both take it for extra gold I know I would need on T3 but also give me two emmies I could use to help start taking R10.  I a standing order to recon a the city in R8 UM, this was done kind of as a early warning to see what the GN was up to.  Instead of using my P1 wizards to 888 I decided to blindly send two emmies capable of taking a town to a couple locations in the sea of drowning.  I like to do this because if they go where no PC is they will just bounce back at no cost and you effectively scout no PC.  So in the End of turn 1 I had effectively scout 22 squares in R9 and 2 squares in R10.  I had three groups on the T row bordering R10 and one on the S row, all ready to swarm R10 if I found enough PCs in R9 for control. I found 1 town and 3 villages in R9 and 1 village in R10.  Knowing the boarder between regions well it was easy for me to know which were in which region.   Adding it up I would have 1 city, 2 towns, and 4 villages in R9 by T3 I am off by a town to gain control.  This is where the team effort comes I to play.  The DA starts with a town in R9 and made sure to move his group off just incase I needed it.  Knowing I had the city and RA capital for a sight increase in census to ensure I got the greater than 50% census needed at exacting half the expected PC points.
Things I did not do on T1 that are common but would have likely cost me the region.  Sell food, train wizards, recruit troops, sell ships.  My entire forum was on gaining both R9 and R10 as fast as possible.

At this point I think it should be obvious R10 would be easy to scout while emmies take control of R9 and be ready to take R10 by T5.  Taking R8 by T7 was just a matter of hiring a priestess getting all the town info and moving into every one of them.

A lot of good advice in there for this NooB.  Thanks for sharing!
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#42
(01-17-2015, 09:45 AM)Beatific Wrote:
(01-17-2015, 03:23 AM)Jumpingfist Wrote: Let me at least go through the thought process and not only how it is possible but actually rather likely to have the two regions as the Ranger happen.

When I approach a primeval type game I play similar to a Titan match. I take the kid glove off and play very aggressive.  Meaning I am not going to be casting invisible for my wizards in combat, I am not going to scout where my emissaries are going I am going to try and claim as many resources as possible as fast as possible until I start mixing it up with the enemy.

The RA has incredible reaction levels which make it very possible to become friendly quickly in multiple regions.  RA also has more than a full court full of emissaries which includes 4 at count level or above meaning he can take multiple cities in friendly regions

Turn 1 I am already looking where my second region will be based on my set up the best choice is R10 sometimes the capital and secondary town in R10 could be set so R8 is the better choice.   My secondary town started just below the upper R10 mountain range.   Knowing the BL capital starts somewhere in the mountains I purposely moved through two of the mountain squares in R10 vs taking the less movement point of one plains and one mountain.  I split off a patrol from my main group to add additional scouting in R9 with my groups.  Most my groups forced marched because gaining the region is huge at this early stage.  Other things for turn 1 basic stuff like enamor to friendly set 991(which I would not do now that it can wait).   I trained both lvl 3 agents to lvl 4 for future scouting.  I moved two emmies into the city to both take it for extra gold I know I would need on T3 but also give me two emmies I could use to help start taking R10.  I a standing order to recon a the city in R8 UM, this was done kind of as a early warning to see what the GN was up to.  Instead of using my P1 wizards to 888 I decided to blindly send two emmies capable of taking a town to a couple locations in the sea of drowning.  I like to do this because if they go where no PC is they will just bounce back at no cost and you effectively scout no PC.  So in the End of turn 1 I had effectively scout 22 squares in R9 and 2 squares in R10.  I had three groups on the T row bordering R10 and one on the S row, all ready to swarm R10 if I found enough PCs in R9 for control. I found 1 town and 3 villages in R9 and 1 village in R10.  Knowing the boarder between regions well it was easy for me to know which were in which region.   Adding it up I would have 1 city, 2 towns, and 4 villages in R9 by T3 I am off by a town to gain control.  This is where the team effort comes I to play.  The DA starts with a town in R9 and made sure to move his group off just incase I needed it.  Knowing I had the city and RA capital for a sight increase in census to ensure I got the greater than 50% census needed at exacting half the expected PC points.
Things I did not do on T1 that are common but would have likely cost me the region.  Sell food, train wizards, recruit troops, sell ships.  My entire forum was on gaining both R9 and R10 as fast as possible.

At this point I think it should be obvious R10 would be easy to scout while emmies take control of R9 and be ready to take R10 by T5.  Taking R8 by T7 was just a matter of hiring a priestess getting all the town info and moving into every one of them.

A lot of good advice in there for this NooB.  Thanks for sharing!

Maybe a emmy sent to a non pop area should be charged cost of the move and lost for 1 additional turn for getting lost and not finding any pc ( you try blind recon and do not find it on turn 1 you are lost and cannot be used on turn 2, you must wait for turn 3... That may cut back on this blind recon stuff, either that or randomize pc's better.
Newer players are at a disadvantage just being new and if veteran players know probable locations of pop centers before a game starts they are even at a more disadvantage. I mean no offense, getting just 1 region with all the resources just 1 turn ahead of another is a big advantage, you have more resources to do things with and can cripple another player rather quickly.  I cannot understand how fun it can be to win when you have an advantage like that, its like playing poker and being able to see the other guys cards? No rules were violated but the balance of the game shifts dramatically.
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#43
I think that a emmy who moves to an area without a PC should definitely still be charged his utilization cost.
-This Khal Drogo, it's said he has a hundred thousand men in his horde
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#44
The game adapts, I remember we used to be able to ambush and then teleport years ago. Looks like they fixed that, RA showed impressive speed. If the powers that be think it is a exploit they will fix it.
Lord Alz - "Jeff"
Arch Mage of the Ancient Ones
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#45
Thanks Beatific for getting why I posted it in the first place. this is the second game i have effectively been accused of cheating with super PC powers. Both games the number of PC found were well within the norm for how many squares I searched.

In this case I found 5 PCs in 22 squares scouted. it has been well documented PC are 1 in 4 throughout alamaze finding 4 of the 5 as villages was actually unlucky even. I am trying to set myself up for success by scouting as much as possible. nobody wrote complains when I scouted 19 squares in another game on T1 to find 1 village. it happens I keep moving on with it.

Everyone focuses in on the blink scouting with emmies. in this case I could have used my two P1s to scout the same squares. would have been free and given me information of both a PC or US or if I group had moved onto the location. Moving the emmy does have a cost in that you get less information but has a reward you could get some extra gold on turn 3. another cost is you must leave that much extra just incase they land on something. Also if you land on two villages now you do not have town taking emmies for T2. I think they should cost normal cost to try and move them but really should not have been a focus on complaining. It was simply a preference but changed nothing in the outcome of events.
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#46
The West got off to a much slower start than the East in this game and we've decided as a team that we're too far behind to have a real chance at prevailing. Congratulations to the East team! The West concedes victory. We're also not sure of the official way to concede so if more needs to be done let us know Smile
-This Khal Drogo, it's said he has a hundred thousand men in his horde
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#47
Thank you for the game guys, appreciate it. Sorry it did not work out.
"Have you ever considered piracy? You'd make a wonderful Dread Pirate Roberts."
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#48
(01-17-2015, 09:45 AM)Beatific Wrote:
(01-17-2015, 03:23 AM)Jumpingfist Wrote: Let me at least go through the thought process and not only how it is possible but actually rather likely to have the two regions as the Ranger happen.

When I approach a primeval type game I play similar to a Titan match. I take the kid glove off and play very aggressive.  Meaning I am not going to be casting invisible for my wizards in combat, I am not going to scout where my emissaries are going I am going to try and claim as many resources as possible as fast as possible until I start mixing it up with the enemy.

The RA has incredible reaction levels which make it very possible to become friendly quickly in multiple regions.  RA also has more than a full court full of emissaries which includes 4 at count level or above meaning he can take multiple cities in friendly regions

Turn 1 I am already looking where my second region will be based on my set up the best choice is R10 sometimes the capital and secondary town in R10 could be set so R8 is the better choice.   My secondary town started just below the upper R10 mountain range.   Knowing the BL capital starts somewhere in the mountains I purposely moved through two of the mountain squares in R10 vs taking the less movement point of one plains and one mountain.  I split off a patrol from my main group to add additional scouting in R9 with my groups.  Most my groups forced marched because gaining the region is huge at this early stage.  Other things for turn 1 basic stuff like enamor to friendly set 991(which I would not do now that it can wait).   I trained both lvl 3 agents to lvl 4 for future scouting.  I moved two emmies into the city to both take it for extra gold I know I would need on T3 but also give me two emmies I could use to help start taking R10.  I a standing order to recon a the city in R8 UM, this was done kind of as a early warning to see what the GN was up to.  Instead of using my P1 wizards to 888 I decided to blindly send two emmies capable of taking a town to a couple locations in the sea of drowning.  I like to do this because if they go where no PC is they will just bounce back at no cost and you effectively scout no PC.  So in the End of turn 1 I had effectively scout 22 squares in R9 and 2 squares in R10.  I had three groups on the T row bordering R10 and one on the S row, all ready to swarm R10 if I found enough PCs in R9 for control. I found 1 town and 3 villages in R9 and 1 village in R10.  Knowing the boarder between regions well it was easy for me to know which were in which region.   Adding it up I would have 1 city, 2 towns, and 4 villages in R9 by T3 I am off by a town to gain control.  This is where the team effort comes I to play.  The DA starts with a town in R9 and made sure to move his group off just incase I needed it.  Knowing I had the city and RA capital for a sight increase in census to ensure I got the greater than 50% census needed at exacting half the expected PC points.
Things I did not do on T1 that are common but would have likely cost me the region.  Sell food, train wizards, recruit troops, sell ships.  My entire forum was on gaining both R9 and R10 as fast as possible.

At this point I think it should be obvious R10 would be easy to scout while emmies take control of R9 and be ready to take R10 by T5.  Taking R8 by T7 was just a matter of hiring a priestess getting all the town info and moving into every one of them.

A lot of good advice in there for this NooB.  Thanks for sharing!

Yes I agree.  
I watched it happen and I still find it hard to believe. 
Great play Wink
I learned a lot myself. 
I am the greatest swordsman that ever lived. Say, um, can I have some of that water?
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#49
Thanks all.  
I'll see you in another game. 
Good hunting. 
I am the greatest swordsman that ever lived. Say, um, can I have some of that water?
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#50
(01-17-2015, 01:55 PM)Jumpingfist Wrote: Thanks Beatific for getting why I posted it in the first place.  this is the second game i have effectively been accused of cheating with super PC powers.  Both games the number of PC found were well within the norm for how many squares I searched.  

In this case I found 5 PCs in 22 squares scouted.  it has been well documented PC are 1 in 4 throughout alamaze finding 4 of the 5 as villages was actually unlucky even.  I am trying to set myself up for success by scouting as much as possible.  nobody wrote complains when I scouted 19 squares in another game on T1 to find 1 village.  it happens I keep moving on with it.

Everyone focuses in on the blink scouting with emmies.  in this case I could have used my two P1s to scout the same squares.  would have been free and given me information of both a PC or US or if I group had moved onto the location.   Moving the emmy does have a cost in that you get less information but has a reward you could get some extra gold on turn 3.  another cost is you must leave that much extra just incase they land on something.  Also if you land on two villages now you do not have town taking emmies for T2.  I think they should cost normal cost to try and move them but really should not have been a focus on complaining.  It was simply a preference but changed nothing in the outcome of events.
No one accused you of cheating this game, I cannot comment on first time because I do not know about it, just asking how is it possible. Seeing your explanation it seems there needs to be better randomizing of pc's and a much higher cost for blind recons if veteran player basically knows where pc's will be. It is an unfair advantage not better play. Obviously if finding pc's is not important to the game they would all be given to us at start so we all would have a even chance of gaining them, so knowing where hidden pc's MIGHT be is an advantage by just playing more and logging where they might be on first turn.
 Again the cost for using an emmy should be paid for this if you do not find pc and maybe the emmy should be "lost in the wild" for a turn and not be able to be used following turn if he misses finding a pc? That may balance out the advantage veteran players have if they might suffer a set back by trying this move.
People please stop being thin skinned, I thought the question of how getting 2 regions on turn 5 was reasonable as most players have a hard time getting 1 by that time, something did not seem right so I asked. No rules were broken as I said but lets level the playing field for all, knowing where pc's might be because you played a lot is not better playing but more played games and logging where set ups are more likely to place pc's. I am guessing there are only so many set ups for pc out there in the system? I don't know, but geez chill out, I know I was not the only one wondering how you did it.
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