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Order 171 Diplomacy
#11
(10-18-2014, 09:55 AM)Wynand Wrote:
(10-17-2014, 04:30 PM)Ry Vor Wrote: Having just deleted about 130 spam messages, I saw this. I'm actually not wanting it to be secret, I thought I had posted most of the particulars before. Its difficult to spell it all out as it is in both Excel and Word and both files contain other data.

Just add 0.5 to regional reaction with Friendly = 1 and Hostile = 4. So base group strength must be 1.5 to PC defense in a Friendly region. Must have a General +, a Warlord provides a 25% bonus. Cannot do in a region controlled by an enemy that is Friendly in region.

For Diplomacy spell, a wizard adds 0.2 per level. So normally a group might require about 3 to 1 in a Tolerant region. With a P4, it would be 2.2 to 1.

Again, it was never the intention that battles would be avoided as a common tactic by issuing Parlay or Diplomacy. That's what nobles (emissaries) are for.

Thanks Ry vor...not sure I totally got the regional reaction piece.

If I assume Friendly =1 and Hostile = 4,
wouldn't that make Tolerant 2 (not 3) and Suspicious 3?

Also, I would extrapolate from the rest of your comment that:

Friendly 1.5
Tolerant 2.5
Suspicious 3.5
Hostile 4.5

Did I miss something?

No, I wasn't being that scientific. You are correct, the base would be 2.5, but there is also a random factor of plus or minus up to 15% so players shouldn't try to get too precise. Again, with the rule of thumb method, have 3 to 1 in a tolerant region to be pretty sure of success, barring any existing status quo. If you have a P3 wizard casting Diplomacy, 2.5 should do it as well.

Oh, remember a controlled PC is x2 difficulty to Parlay or Diplomacize.
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#12
(10-17-2014, 06:17 PM)kevindusi Wrote: So then JumpingFists P8 in a friendly region would be able to use any size group, correct?

1.5 - (.2)(8) = -.1

wizard power is at 0.1 per level NOT 0.2/per level typo from Ry Vor earlier.
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#13
(10-18-2014, 12:56 PM)Ry Vor Wrote:
(10-18-2014, 09:55 AM)Wynand Wrote:
(10-17-2014, 04:30 PM)Ry Vor Wrote: Having just deleted about 130 spam messages, I saw this. I'm actually not wanting it to be secret, I thought I had posted most of the particulars before. Its difficult to spell it all out as it is in both Excel and Word and both files contain other data.

Just add 0.5 to regional reaction with Friendly = 1 and Hostile = 4. So base group strength must be 1.5 to PC defense in a Friendly region. Must have a General +, a Warlord provides a 25% bonus. Cannot do in a region controlled by an enemy that is Friendly in region.

For Diplomacy spell, a wizard adds 0.2 per level. So normally a group might require about 3 to 1 in a Tolerant region. With a P4, it would be 2.2 to 1.

Again, it was never the intention that battles would be avoided as a common tactic by issuing Parlay or Diplomacy. That's what nobles (emissaries) are for.

Thanks Ry vor...not sure I totally got the regional reaction piece.

If I assume Friendly =1 and Hostile = 4,
wouldn't that make Tolerant 2 (not 3) and Suspicious 3?

Also, I would extrapolate from the rest of your comment that:

Friendly 1.5
Tolerant 2.5
Suspicious 3.5
Hostile 4.5

Did I miss something?

No, I wasn't being that scientific. You are correct, the base would be 2.5, but there is also a random factor of plus or minus up to 15% so players shouldn't try to get too precise. Again, with the rule of thumb method, have 3 to 1 in a tolerant region to be pretty sure of success, barring any existing status quo. If you have a P3 wizard casting Diplomacy, 2.5 should do it as well.

Oh, remember a controlled PC is x2 difficulty to Parlay or Diplomacize.

Appreciate the clarification, Ry vor.

Given this, as others would have already noted, it's virtually impossible to diplomacy a friendly controlled city (assuming a -25% penalty for cities) unless you have a massive group and an extremely potent wizard.
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#14
I think my typo was to Cipher - I wanted the wizards to be 0.2 (not 0.1) per level on Diplomacy. Shouldn't be too hard to fix. Also there was no intention for cities to be treated differently from towns and villages, ie, not 25% more difficult. Maybe I am not remembering something?
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#15
(10-18-2014, 06:21 PM)Ry Vor Wrote: I think my typo was to Cipher - I wanted the wizards to be 0.2 (not 0.1) per level on Diplomacy. Shouldn't be too hard to fix.

That's a pretty severe penalty on the wizard kingdoms, isn't it?
-The Deliverer
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#16
(10-18-2014, 06:21 PM)Ry Vor Wrote: I think my typo was to Cipher - I wanted the wizards to be 0.2 (not 0.1) per level on Diplomacy. Shouldn't be too hard to fix. Also there was no intention for cities to be treated differently from towns and villages, ie, not 25% more difficult. Maybe I am not remembering something?

Cipher comments earlier on in this thread that Kevin's calculation, while accurate, would not be valid for cities, controlled PCs or regional reactions other than friendly.
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#17
(10-18-2014, 06:23 PM)kevindusi Wrote:
(10-18-2014, 06:21 PM)Ry Vor Wrote: I think my typo was to Cipher - I wanted the wizards to be 0.2 (not 0.1) per level on Diplomacy. Shouldn't be too hard to fix.

That's a pretty severe penalty on the wizard kingdoms, isn't it?

It seems on my previous comment it got 100% better for Diplomacy impact on towns and villages, and if there was a 25% penalty for cities, 125% better there.
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#18
In Second Cycle, cities are 25% harder to sway, which has been in the code since at least 2006, applied to all political and parley & diplomacy efforts. Still in the code today.
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#19
(10-18-2014, 06:27 PM)Ry Vor Wrote:
(10-18-2014, 06:23 PM)kevindusi Wrote:
(10-18-2014, 06:21 PM)Ry Vor Wrote: I think my typo was to Cipher - I wanted the wizards to be 0.2 (not 0.1) per level on Diplomacy. Shouldn't be too hard to fix.

That's a pretty severe penalty on the wizard kingdoms, isn't it?

It seems on my previous comment it got 100% better for Diplomacy impact on towns and villages, and if there was a 25% penalty for cities, 125% better there.

I read it the wrong way. Smile My bad!
-The Deliverer
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#20
(10-18-2014, 05:39 PM)Wynand Wrote:
(10-18-2014, 12:56 PM)Ry Vor Wrote:
(10-18-2014, 09:55 AM)Wynand Wrote:
(10-17-2014, 04:30 PM)Ry Vor Wrote: Having just deleted about 130 spam messages, I saw this. I'm actually not wanting it to be secret, I thought I had posted most of the particulars before. Its difficult to spell it all out as it is in both Excel and Word and both files contain other data.

Just add 0.5 to regional reaction with Friendly = 1 and Hostile = 4. So base group strength must be 1.5 to PC defense in a Friendly region. Must have a General +, a Warlord provides a 25% bonus. Cannot do in a region controlled by an enemy that is Friendly in region.

For Diplomacy spell, a wizard adds 0.2 per level. So normally a group might require about 3 to 1 in a Tolerant region. With a P4, it would be 2.2 to 1.

Again, it was never the intention that battles would be avoided as a common tactic by issuing Parlay or Diplomacy. That's what nobles (emissaries) are for.

Thanks Ry vor...not sure I totally got the regional reaction piece.

If I assume Friendly =1 and Hostile = 4,
wouldn't that make Tolerant 2 (not 3) and Suspicious 3?

Also, I would extrapolate from the rest of your comment that:

Friendly 1.5
Tolerant 2.5
Suspicious 3.5
Hostile 4.5

Did I miss something?

No, I wasn't being that scientific. You are correct, the base would be 2.5, but there is also a random factor of plus or minus up to 15% so players shouldn't try to get too precise. Again, with the rule of thumb method, have 3 to 1 in a tolerant region to be pretty sure of success, barring any existing status quo. If you have a P3 wizard casting Diplomacy, 2.5 should do it as well.

Oh, remember a controlled PC is x2 difficulty to Parlay or Diplomacize.

Appreciate the clarification, Ry vor.

Given this, as others would have already noted, it's virtually impossible to diplomacy a friendly controlled city (assuming a -25% penalty for cities) unless you have a massive group and an extremely potent wizard.

This is post brings up the importance of the order of operation in the formula.

Depending on the order a power 4 could get the friendly controlled city with a group that is that is around 1.9 the value of the city. This assumes the wizard had the .2 per level reduction.

1.5+.25=1.75? (city modified)

1.75-.8=.95

.95*2= 1.9 (controlled)

+/- 15% and the regional control modifiers...


If the controlling king was minor or also controlled the region those modifiers would come into play at the end I assume. There is finally the +/- random variable to throw you off.
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