Poll: What should be the Standard Victory Condition?
This poll is closed.
As is - Control 5 regions
8.70%
2 8.70%
Control 4 regions
60.87%
14 60.87%
Control 3 regions for 2 turns
30.43%
7 30.43%
Total 23 vote(s) 100%
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Potential New Standard Victory Condition
#21
Players have to claim victory, so if someone wants to have the most glorious victory in the history of the revival of Alamaze, they can hold off for The Rex. Maybe we come up with a different name for winning via 3 regions controlled for two turns and preserve that old unlikely glory in a game with no early drops for The Rex.

I'm still puzzled where, other than an RSI game essentially un-moderated, or a game with drops and newbies many years ago, no one can recollect a standard victory, but still there is no appetite to change the standard victory condition to be about equally viable with a secret victory. Huh?

Again, in Fall of Rome, players definitely felt if you were to win by other than standard, that there should be additional twists to make it somewhat harder, as it would be unexpected, than to win by standard. I don't get why here people don't want a standard victory. The score now, and into the foreseeable future, Secret Victory - All wins, Standard Victory - 0. I just don't get it, especially given the variability in the difficulty of SVC, and if that's the reason, that some people are hoping for an easy SVC, that will be changing as well and all will be about equally difficult.
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#22
(11-10-2013, 11:14 PM)Ry Vor Wrote: Players have to claim victory, so if someone wants to have the most glorious victory in the history of the revival of Alamaze, they can hold off for The Rex. Maybe we come up with a different name for winning via 3 regions controlled for two turns and preserve that old unlikely glory in a game with no early drops for The Rex.

I'm still puzzled where, other than an RSI game essentially un-moderated, or a game with drops and newbies many years ago, no one can recollect a standard victory, but still there is no appetite to change the standard victory condition to be about equally viable with a secret victory. Huh?

Again, in Fall of Rome, players definitely felt if you were to win by other than standard, that there should be additional twists to make it somewhat harder, as it would be unexpected, than to win by standard. I don't get why here people don't want a standard victory. The score now, and into the foreseeable future, Secret Victory - All wins, Standard Victory - 0. I just don't get it, especially given the variability in the difficulty of SVC, and if that's the reason, that some people are hoping for an easy SVC, that will be changing as well and all will be about equally difficult.

Nobody wants either victory to be relatively or routinely easy.

The best Alamaze game I ever played was where all players agreed the game would last 40 turns with no SVC. Nobody dropped unless eliminated and regions changed hands many times while armies and wizards were powerful, indeed. It was glorious!

The answer you seek is NOT to make the standard victory easier, but all of the SVC harder... IMHO
Lord Thanatos
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#23
In NC or with RSI, players paid $7.50 a turn. There was no penalty for dropping, no citizenship, tournament eligibility, ability to nominate for commendations, etc. No forum to communicate player experience, to have your name known outside of Valhalla. If you weren't doing well, you dropped, and no one begrudged you to leave the game to join the next game instead of spending $7.50 a turn to continue. That's what people did. So lots of games continued with no winner in sight with 5 players in a game for many turns.

Now we have changed that culture, and basically, no one (almost) that has entered their second game drops a game before turn 12. This is also because they respect their competitors and know dropping early hurts the game.

But after turn 12, or later, I want players to enjoy their experience and feel free to move on to the next game. For some games, yes, maybe 5 players can all wrestle it out to the bitter end, but when its not fun (yes, fun is important) to carry on as a good soldier, we have made it easy to move on to a fresh contest at the point it is no longer unbalancing to the established powers in that particular game. Extending games by making victory conditions neigh unreachable goes the opposite direction.
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#24
(11-10-2013, 11:36 PM)Ry Vor Wrote: In NC or with RSI, players paid $7.50 a turn. There was no penalty for dropping, no citizenship, tournament eligibility, ability to nominate for commendations, etc. No forum to communicate player experience, to have your name known outside of Valhalla. If you weren't doing well, you dropped, and no one begrudged you to leave the game to join the next game instead of spending $7.50 a turn to continue. That's what people did. So lots of games continued with no winner in sight with 5 players in a game for many turns.

Now we have changed that culture, and basically, no one (almost) that has entered their second game drops a game before turn 12. This is also because they respect their competitors and know dropping early hurts the game.

But after turn 12, or later, I want players to enjoy their experience and feel free to move on to the next game. For some games, yes, maybe 5 players can all wrestle it out to the bitter end, but when its not fun (yes, fun is important) to carry on as a good soldier, we have made it easy to move on to a fresh contest at the point it is no longer unbalancing to the established powers in that particular game. Extending games by making victory conditions neigh unreachable goes the opposite direction.

Because we don't pay a per turn fee most players play longer into the game and are difficult to actually eliminate. In game 112 I faced three coordinated opponents from turn one; turn 15 just arrived and although they may soon eliminate me they haven't yet. Even if I felt like dropping and making it easier for one of them to win (I do NOT feel this way) there isn't another game starting up right now. The point is that without a per turn fee many more players fight longer into the game. IF the SVC were a little more difficult maybe we would have a better likelihood of accomplishing a standard victory - and that is the discussion on this thread.

Maybe we should start a game without SVC and see if someone can accomplish a standard victory in 40 turns?

Anyhow, I am not complaining - just trying to contribute to the discussion. Don't make standard victory easier; make SVC harder.

Having said the above, I did vote to make the standard victory 4 regions instead of 5. Make of that what you will, my friend.
Lord Thanatos
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#25
Not that i am there yet, but how does one alert the game master that one is throwing in the towel and is ready to move on to a new game?
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#26
(11-11-2013, 01:36 AM)VballMichael Wrote: Not that i am there yet, but how does one alert the game master that one is throwing in the towel and is ready to move on to a new game?

I have no idea! Smile

Actually, send a message to Cipher to the same e-mail where you send your turns with the game number and clear instructions that you have been bullied beyond any reasonable ability to deal with the situation and you prefer to throw in the towel while you seek emotional counseling.

Cipher will take care of the necessary mechanics.

Hope this helps!
Lord Thanatos
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#27
Perfect, thanks
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#28
I remember one game that was standard victory only that Phil ran way back when. If memory serves correctly, Andy Brogan won that one and I took second. It was a good time, and definitely changed the way that people approached the game. Phil removed the 40 turn cap and I think it ran until 42 or 43 to get it done... with quite a few players left by the end.

I think one of the reasons that we don't see a standard victory ever is that in order to get a standard victory you will more than likely have met all the requirements of your SVC. A player would have to be willing to risk his win via SVC to get there, as other players would have a chance to chase down their own SVCs in the meantime.

I'm game for bringing it down to 4 regions, but along with UncleMike's thoughts... it should be something very rare to see as it requires a player to go above and beyond. I'm going to shoot for it in the invitational, starting with region 6.
-The Deliverer
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