+- Alamaze - New (https://alamaze.net/forum)
+-- Forum: Discussions (https://alamaze.net/forum/forum-67.html)
+--- Forum: General Alamaze Discussion Area (https://alamaze.net/forum/forum-12.html)
+--- Thread: Admission: I am confused (/thread-9767.html)
Pages:
1
2
Admission: I am confused - Lord Diamond - 03-11-2015
I have a confession to make. When it comes to any particular discussion (agents, invisibility, etc..) I don't know what applies to 'Classic', 'New Engine', or 'Future whatever'. I see games moving to the new engine and I think "I must be playing by the rules Unclemike is talking about", but then I read a comment from Rick that says something like 'Nothing is changing in Classic. This is for you guys who want everything to freeze". Umm, how the Hell do I know which is which?
Then I read Cipher comment about 'This still applies to games on whatsitcalledplatform' and I still don't have a clue.
Thousands of comments, official rules (updated or not?????), etc.. and I really don't have a clue as to what applies to any particular game I am playing. I keep reading that I should stay updated on the Forums, but that isn't helping at all.
So, there you have it. I have no idea what applies to what, what is old and what is new, what is frozen and what may be changed before I finish typing this email. I have a feeling that I am not alone..
RE: Admission: I am confused - VballMichael - 03-11-2015
I'm with you. And what is Clipper?
RE: Admission: I am confused - kevindusi - 03-11-2015
It's someone who plays for an LA team that is not a Laker.
RE: Admission: I am confused - HeadHoncho - 03-11-2015
Here's what I understand from what I've been able to gather on the forums.
Clipper is the old platform that has been running the games for the last couple of years, it produces the .pdf files we see. We were very fortunate to have an expert on that platform in Cipher, because I believe it's VERY old and quite difficult to enact changes. That platform is frozen as is. (After all, who wants to sink more development time on a cumbersome platform when we're already in the process of moving on.)
The new platform is XML-based, it produces the .html files we've been seeing. That platform has some amazing format enhancements (e.g. warning e-mails if you don't have orders in, automatic processing without needing Admin time, better-looking parchment background, etc.) and also some game enhancements (e.g. seeing the owner of pop centers your groups pass, artifact difficulty level, starting all artifacts in the "wild" with none in neutral pop centers, potentially no "lousy" artifacts if those have been or will be updated, new seapower enhancements, a few new spells, battle damage density, some others I'm missing, probably). At some point very soon, it will probably be frozen as is, too, I'm guessing with at least some of the enhancements, while some others are being or may be rolled back.
Rick is developing and excited about the "next" version of Alamaze, with new Kingdoms etc. I don't believe that is past the design stage, but based on how incredibly quickly UncleMike has gotten the new platform up and running, the next version might be ready within months.
EDIT: More on Clipper. 1985, wow!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_(programming_language)
RE: Admission: I am confused - Lord Diamond - 03-11-2015
That still doesn't answer all the paradoxes we keep seeing on the Forums based on rules, commands, results, etc..
Rick keeps saying that the system is frozen for those who like Classic. Are there any Classic games running? What kind of games are we signing up for?
Which rule interpretations apply to which game?
For the record, I am in love with Unclemike's platform, although I may prefer some of the old interpretations of the program.
I am not making judhgment on anything other than the fact that I am confused about what applies now and to what game.
RE: Admission: I am confused - HeadHoncho - 03-11-2015
All games running and being signed up for right now (indeed, all games that have been played since the relaunch) are Classic. I believe Rick is probably just speaking of Classic while looking forward prospectively to the "next" version of Alamaze.
All new games are on the new platform. Most old games have been migrated to the new platform as well.
Thus, the new platform rules are currently in effect. Again, some changes may be rolled back (the one about groups passing pop centers and also learning if it's a capital is one recent example), but others appear to be staying.
The way I interpret Rick's comments on "frozen" are that we shouldn't expect any significant new changes in the current game, and so asking for them may not be productive. Perhaps at most there will be some tweaks based on some of UncleMike's changes, but by and large, Classic will remain as-is.
To the extent people want changes, they will probably go (if at all) in the "next" version of Alamaze, whenever that launches.
RE: Admission: I am confused - unclemike - 03-11-2015
Sorry for the confusion with my posts but we pretty much just have one platform for all games now. All games except one (28 warlords championship) is on the new automated system. All posts that I personally make about the new game engine or how a particular order or spell functions, applies for all games except that one. That simplifies things for everyone.
Moving games over to the automated system was necessary to reduce costs, free up Ry Vor's time to develop new concepts moving forward, and to facilitate demands for a better gaming system. I still have some work to go on this effort such as having a signup web page that will automate the process that much greater for everyone but I haven't gotten to that task yet.
Freezing 2nd Cycle style of play will be done when I can finalize the new software to play in a certain manner for a particular game. The purpose would be to allow players to go back to certain style of play like using Classic rules on the original Classic map. There will be other styles of play with different scenarios but right now, the new game engine uses the latest software updates and applies them for all games.
RE: Admission: I am confused - HeadHoncho - 03-11-2015
Wow! Tremendous progress, had no idea that all of the games had already been migrated! Great job, thanks very much.
RE: Admission: I am confused - Ry Vor - 03-11-2015
Without belaboring the point, I have to remind, neither Cipher or Mike are "employees". We don't go to an office building at 8:00am together and I don't really have the authority to give them instructions. They don't really "report" to me as we don't charge enough to have an employee. They do what they do when they do. We started "Final 2nd Cycle Changes" in September, 2013. I never know exactly when any particular thing is done. Again, I can't update the rules every time a change is made even though Microsoft might - did I mention we don't have employees? I need players to stop thinking of "me" as a large corporation with department heads, etc.
As I have said before, we would never have Alamaze going without Cipher. I couldn't believe how complicated the transformation from Symphony, the Alamaze game I programmed that won Game of the Year, got in reprogramming into Clipper, a project which I never supported and then had to answer to when taking it back in 2013. When Phil was talked into doing the reprogramming, by a former player not Cipher, it was due to frustration on a couple things that had not been programmed, like when the Ring of Power was transferred, a couple other little things like that that had to be done manually, like ESO, Victory, Appeal to the Gods. So when Phil lost 500 out of 1000 positions doing the transition to Clipper, I assumed those were for sure fixed, but they were not. It was virtually identical to what I left it as in 1992, with the same missing few programmed steps and any other warts. So within Clipper, Cipher was able to handle programming most of that in 2013 and 2014. But I had lost all visibility into the code I created. In Symphony, I could change any text, any value, any formula I wished within 5 minutes. In Clipper, I could not see it, and it might take a year before something that used to be simple was done.
Now I also have no visibility into the "new platform", which I just found out includes the Warlords games, and everything except game #28. So I can't answer exactly what is in place as of 7pm Wednesday, March 11, 2015. Does that surprise you? Yes, it is a bit strange "running" a business and not knowing exactly what is going on. We do it mainly by camaraderie and a love of Alamaze. We would have to charge $10 a turn, like every other PBEM company does, to have that extra layer of structure. So I have adapted from being a SVP in a Fortune 500 business making 1st percentile money, to a geeky game designer that is doing what he wants instead of diving after money, while still trying to pay bills.
Mike has been outstanding in the migration to XML. I can't really answer questions about what is in the code. I can say I know how complicated Alamaze algorithms are, and about the over-arching scale of the game, its detail and complexity. I am surprised how fast Mike has made the transition to the beautiful new platform and his enthusiasm to get to an automated system like Fall of Rome had. And he has been a bit zealous in that some changes I intended to wait until 4th Cycle he has gone ahead and done. And we have had some lingering issues like player elimination / encampment / Sanctuary or sea power issues so sometimes I think we are done with Classic changes and we have not been.
Classic is everything you have seen to date. I want that fixed; as in unchanging. Then we will have a final update to the Classic Rules, players can go on in that format as long as they like. Everything subsequent to that, is Alamaze 4th Scenario, likely called "The Choosing", or 3rd Cycle, on a new, potentially hexagonal and larger map with lots of changes that some players may not like, but if they are passionate about it, as they usually are, they can play Classic.
Thank you for enjoying Alamaze. You are why we do it.
RE: Admission: I am confused - Lord Diamond - 03-11-2015
Rick, I hope that you didn't take anything I've typed as criticism of the game, Unclemike, Cipher, or yourself. I didn't complain about moving to the new platform; indeed, I welcome it whole heartedly. My confusion is caused by the fact that these beloved forums are riddled with inconsistencies, outdated rules, and confusing (to me) statements.
Unclemike has helped to clear this up, to a point. I am still not entirely certain as to some rules and commands, but will take Unclemike's determinations as gospel moving forward.
I am going to create a thread editable only by Unclemike so that he can post final rulings at his leisure. We'll have a place to go when in doubt.
Thanks,