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Full Version: Multiple 170/171's?
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(09-17-2013, 09:50 PM)Hawk_ Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-17-2013, 04:38 PM)kevindusi Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-17-2013, 04:34 PM)VballMichael Wrote: [ -> ]yikes, so the players with data will share the info with each other and have even that much more info than the newbs?

I'm pretty sure if you ask Hawk he'll shoot it to you as well. Generally speaking most of the players are very happy to share stuff like this.

I pretty much send everybody anything I have. My position is that unless we share info with new players they will quit and the game will die off.

If there is anything I can help with let me know.

That said, I haven't received any 170/171 data from anyone yet. All I have are my own experiences. I don't have enough data to define the formula yet.

Hawk, all I have are guesses. P3 with 2 brigades for a city in a friendly region, P2 with 6 brigades for the same. GI pretty much just automatically succeeds, etc.

I'm happy to help if people have questions on whether they think anything will work (unless they are working against me, of course). Email at kdusi13@gmail.com.

Hawk has a lot of the older stuff that Phil used to have on his site, I think. I'm just good for the "hey kev, think this will work?" type stuff. I'm happy to answer questions and spend time with the newer players. Even Jumbie.
We have decided to not release official formulas, but certainly do encourage discussions amongst the players to help with shared info/experiences.
Quote:Hawk, all I have are guesses. P3 with 2 brigades for a city in a friendly region, P2 with 6 brigades for the same. GI pretty much just automatically succeeds, etc.

I know that a group with a warlord, marshal II, captain, and a pwr-5 wiz casting diplomacy with 5 brigades will fail for a city (with no defending status quo being active) if your regional reaction is suspicious.
Also, order 170 of a group led by a captain with a combat value 1.476 times the defense of a town will fail in a friendly region (no stat quo active).
This one really surprised me: order 170 will fail for a group led by two warlords, general and more than twice the town's defense in a tolerant region (no status quo active).
for giant, a small group just a little tougher than the village took a friendly village with a Captain II. but an army with a general and 2 captains failed on a tolerant city (and that was with a P-1 Diplomacy).
(09-27-2013, 10:26 PM)VballMichael Wrote: [ -> ]for giant, a small group just a little tougher than the village took a friendly village with a Captain II. but an army with a general and 2 captains failed on a tolerant city (and that was with a P-1 Diplomacy).


We need some numbers to zero in on this. For instance, was the army with the general twice the value of the city's defense? 1.5 times? etc.

Also, Unclemike, I think that the warlords already contributed to the combat value of the group in your case and that's the end of their usefulness for that order. In other words, the 170/171 seems to vary on 4 numbers, i.e. town defense, group value, regional reaction and wizard power.

Any attempt to figure out the formula involved means our data has to include those four items as a number (or at least a ratio): Town defense, wizard level, regional reaction and group value.
Quote:Also, Unclemike, I think that the warlords already contributed to the combat value of the group in your case and that's the end of their usefulness for that order.

The leader's rank are calculated as a separate factor. Read rulebook under order 170. It states that the force of arms (i.e. group's combat value vs pop center) is a factor as well as the leader's rank. A group may not have any leaders at all and parley while it is at a disadvantage compared to another of the same combat value with decent leaders.
(09-29-2013, 12:15 AM)unclemike Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:Also, Unclemike, I think that the warlords already contributed to the combat value of the group in your case and that's the end of their usefulness for that order.

The leader's rank are calculated as a separate factor. Read rulebook under order 170. It states that the force of arms (i.e. group's combat value vs pop center) is a factor as well as the leader's rank. A group may not have any leaders at all and parley while it is at a disadvantage compared to another of the same combat value with decent leaders.

I have wondered about Warlords helping but the data I have studied makes me believe it is more of a point value system vs. regional reaction.

Here are some of my observations. I would be especially interested in failures disprooving these.

Basic 170 order success if group is ~160% of a neutral PC value in a friendly region. Giant succeeds at ~150%

170 order success if group is ~320% of a controlled PC value in a friendly region.

171 power 1 wizard success is about 160% of controlled PC value. Giant is about 150% in a controlled PC.

171 orders for a power 3 wizard: Take 4 times the group value. If this is greater than the controlled PC value = success in friendly region.

I think Tolerant will double the required points and suspicious will triple them.

Please contribute if you can.
(09-29-2013, 02:08 AM)Hawk_ Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-29-2013, 12:15 AM)unclemike Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:Also, Unclemike, I think that the warlords already contributed to the combat value of the group in your case and that's the end of their usefulness for that order.

The leader's rank are calculated as a separate factor. Read rulebook under order 170. It states that the force of arms (i.e. group's combat value vs pop center) is a factor as well as the leader's rank. A group may not have any leaders at all and parley while it is at a disadvantage compared to another of the same combat value with decent leaders.

I have wondered about Warlords helping but the data I have studied makes me believe it is more of a point value system vs. regional reaction.

Here are some of my observations. I would be especially interested in failures disprooving these.

Basic 170 order success if group is ~130% (new data) of a neutral PC value in a friendly region. Giant succeeds at ~120% (estimated)

170 order success if group is ~320% (looking for a lower data point) of a controlled PC value in a friendly region.

171 power 1 wizard success is about 160% of controlled PC value. Giant is about 150% in a controlled PC (lowest data point I have).

171 orders for a power 3 wizard: Take 4 times the group value. If this is greater than the controlled PC value = success in friendly region.

I think Tolerant will double the required points and suspicious will triple them.

Please contribute if you can.
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