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Full Version: covid vaccine or not?
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Id wager most of us that play this game are on the above average in the Int . stat, so I wonder how everyone else feels.
do you trust the vaccine and will you take it?

As for me, I dont drink the koolaid and consider this a rushed, long term untested crock of, wtf could happen 10 yrs from now. I wont take it.
I won't be an early adopter, but I am guessing we will all be vaccinated somewhere down the road.
I am considered a high tier type due to both age and health issues.  It's looking like vaccination would be available to me by the end of January or early February.  From what I have seen so far I am leaning towards Moderna as the covid 19 vaccine of choice.  It's a sure thing that I will get the covid vaccinations but I am not in a rush to be the first in line.  Having at least 6 weeks to watch how the system is working and what, if any the reactions are is a good thing.
The concern for lack of long term trials is very viable.  The other side of that coin is watching 3000 people a day dying and so many suffering the economic downside.  Even after vaccination we will have to continue masking and the other precautions to keep the unvaccinated portion of the herd safe.
I'm in the vaccine friendly crowd by getting the flu shot every year but I'm a bit hesitate about getting one for Covid-19. The reason: read Moderna's (or another's) Phase III results report. Health officials jumped on the chance of saying the vaccine has a 95% or better effectiveness but what they are not saying is just how well the placebo did as well.

Moderna's Phase III study comprised of 30,000 people of which half got the vaccine and half the placebo. Of the placebo group, 90 people got covid and 11 of them were seriously ill. The vaccine group had only a few getting covid while none were seriously ill. Health officials were excited and jumped all over that saying the vaccine was hugely successful and let's distribute to everyone but what about the placebo?

I'm not really considered with the 90 people getting better on their own (much like a normal cold/flu) but instead I'm focusing on the 11 that were seriously ill. Again, that's only 11 out of 15,000 people who needed help against covid. That's pretty good isn't? I mean, they just got salt-water as an injection and only a mere 11 out of 15,000 were seriously ill from covid during that period.

What does that mean for the Phase III study that health officials aren't saying? That the placebo did nearly was well as the vaccine. Having 11 out of 15,000 is well within the margin of error of doing any study. For example, if those 11 people stayed at home more often rather than going out and mingle, they may not have gotten sick with covid at all which would have made the placebo group just as effective as the vaccine with zero people going to the hospital.

Health officials aren't saying that part of the study. They're just jumping on the fact that 0 people who got the vaccine got seriously sick. I think the President should call the deployment of the vaccine, Operation Margin of Error, because that's about how much the nation would benefit if everyone got the vaccine (according to the Phase III results). And I'm saying this as a vaccine friendly guy who gets the flu shot every year, I can't imagine what the non-friendly vaccine types say about this if they paid attention to the medical reports.

But what do I know, I'm just a computer programmer smuck...
Historically vaccines have been good, for America at least. I dunno if I'd want to be in the 1st group of a "rushed" vaccine however.
You can bet the study was of 15k healthy people and most if not all were low risk.  I would bet the results would be very different for 15K high risk people.  There are no studies on the effects on pregnant women or unborn babies for obvious reasons.  The Pfizer vaccine has shown some allergic reactions.  To what?  My wife needs an Epi Pen for allergic reactions to several things including some medications.  There are many things to ponder but kudos to the industry for having multiple options available in record time.
There is also Ivermectin.  A think-tank doctor recently, (like, days ago) concluded a massive series of studies which show its literally a miracle drug against Covid.  He gave an impassioned plea to congress for NIH to review his data.  But I don't know if they want to hear it. Covid vaccines are BIG money, and ivermectin is an old drug, cheap, well know, effective.

Ivermectin was developed as an anti-parasitic, but it has dramatic anti-inflammatory properties, and Covids damage is due to inflammation in the cells. Your own cells response is what's deadly, not so much the virus itself.  Think about what happens when you sprain your ankle, it swells up and you are told to put ice on it or the swelling will do more damage than the injury... same with Covid.  That's why most people get Covid and don't even realize it... its like a rhinovirus.  Unless you are susceptible to that inflammation, what's called a "cytokine storm".  If you have that reaction, its not just deadly, it gruesome.

Anti-inflammatory drugs should have been the first line of defense (ie... like Tylenol, which may explain why more people didn't realize they had it, they just took NSAIDs and were fine).  I'm not sure the right people really wanted this disease to go away quickly.
I think that drug was disapproved by the National Institutes of Health...
(12-12-2020, 08:07 PM)unclemike Wrote: [ -> ]I think that drug was disapproved by the National Institutes of Health...

Right, in august, before the new studies.
To have an effective vaccine study, wouldn't you need to infect all the participants with the virus?
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