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While I love the Game Queue, I do have a question/concern. It seems to me that the drafting protocol for pretty much ALL games should be one kingdom per zone; at least that's how its been for virtually all 3rd Cycle games (excluding Duels) prior to the game queue. NOTE: I'm going to use Zone 4 Torvale (SO-AM) for my example.

It seems to be that when you join a game, once you've selected one kingdom say SO, that the other kingdom in that same zone should then disappear from your options (AM is no longer available). Furthermore, once the draft has started, when a player has drafted either the SO or the AM, that no other player should be able to draft the other kingdom in that zone. In other words, either the SO or the AM can be in the game but NOT both.

However, the only drafting option that seems to support this is Draft F. I would argue that ALL the draft options (especially A and B) should also be this way. But it appears that they are not (but perhaps I'm in error). It would appear that in all the other draft options, BOTH the SO and AM could be in play in the same game (also meaning that some zones have no kingdom present at all).

If I am correct, then I would humbly request (whenever UncleMike has the time), that the draft options be redone such that there is a new two option box where the first option is One Kingdom per Zone Exclusive (Only the SO or the AM can be in the game but not both and every zone in play {either 10 or 12} has one kingdom represented) and the second option is No Zone Restraint where both the SO and the AM could be in the game (played by different players) and some zones may start with no kingdoms present. The game creator would still need to select Draft Style A-F but then also click one of the two options I listed above to clarify further how that draft will be done in regards to one kingdom per zone or not. UncleMike may a different/better way to program this, I'm just presenting what I would see as a logical change in the format.

Again, if I'm mistaken about this, my apologies, but so far this my impression is that only Draft Option F currently has the One Kingdom per Zone criteria (which has always been the norm) and that is problematic.
I mentioned this Tark when we were restarting the 10 player game. We need a 12 player version of option F so we can actually draft the way the choosing was originally set up, by zone/dispersed kingdoms. I have not signed up for any games currently in queue due to the draft process.
I would just reiterate what I said earlier: that instead of any or everyone creating their own queue they can do that for Duels and perhaps Primeval, but the constructs of larger games are discussed here and agreed upon on the forum, and when filled, someone creates the game according to those parameters. Alamaze has never been about randomness, nor do I think the 2000 possible formations in The Choosing or the 100,000 coming in Maelstrom need to be expanded.  Its one thing that you can do a thing, its another whether you should.  Alamaze was around more than 20 years and Game of the Year, with essentially one setup, before the Choosing.   We've actually had some of our best players (Morgan Kane, Lord Thanatos, many others) leave because with The Choosing, they kind of lost the game they knew from 2nd Cycle with that one setup. They weren't asking for more variables. Let's just agree on the forum what game we want next, like Silent Steel, and do that. Again, a concern is with unlimited formats, we don't start games quickly, and its even harder for new players to get acclimated. We need new players to get involved, and we need our players on sabbatical to come back.
Imperial Tark Wrote:
It seems to me that the drafting protocol for pretty much ALL games should be one kingdom per zone; at least that's how its been for virtually all 3rd Cycle games (excluding Duels) prior to the game queue.

Draft F (draft-by-region) should only apply towards a 10-player game. If you're signing up for a 12-player game, you're going to have some regions that are shared between kingdoms (because there's 12 players and only 10 regions).

So unless I'm missing something, draft-by-region is only relevant for a 10-player game. It doesn't apply in any other case.

Warlords you choose 3 kingdoms (out of 12 kingdoms since there's 4 players) which is not relevant for draft-by-region because there's 12 kingdoms involved which will share regions. Titan you choose 6 kingdoms (out of 12 kingdoms) which is not relevant for draft-by-region for the same reason. Slugfest, Primeval, Duel, and Solo games are not relevant for draft-by-region by their very nature. Confederation/Confluence have their own special handling and not relevant for draft-by-region.

I can see the possible case for a 10-player Magic game that may want to draft-by-region but have we ever had a 10-player Magic game that only has one kingdom per region before? Over the past 4 years, there may have been some highly specialized games that did this but it wasn't common. Typically for a Magic (team) game, the players want to specify what kingdoms are comprised on their teams instead of having a random drafting of 10 or 12 player choices in a toss-up of team composition. The global malware attack on the former servers ruined some of our historical archive so I can't lookup past Magic games but typically, players choose what kingdoms they want to play on a team. It wasn't a random determination and not a one-kingdom-per-region scenario because we haven't had that many 10-player Magic games over the years.

So really, we just need the current Draft F option to handle the scenario that it is meant to support: a 10-player Steel game.

JonDoe Wrote:
I mentioned this Tark when we were restarting the 10 player game. We need a 12 player version of option F so we can actually draft the way the choosing was originally set up, by zone/dispersed kingdoms. I have not signed up for any games currently in queue due to the draft process.

As mentioned above, you cannot have a 12-player game and draft-by-region. If that's the reason why you're not signing up for a new game in the queue then you may be waiting for a while.

Ry Vor Wrote:
Let's just agree on the forum what game we want next...

As I mentioned from the very beginning, players should state on the forum that they created a new entry in the Game Queue and for players to signup there. The forum should be used as a means of advertising a new game request. What I don't want is for Ry Vor to manually create a game because if he makes a mistake (yes, it happens more than he's willing to say), it's a mess to clean up because I have to bypass the automated feature of the game creation module. And I really don't want to do that anymore so use the forum to advertise your new game but the Game Queue is necessary to create the game for us. With Draft F being added, we have over 3,000 game possibilities with the Game Queue so hopefully that should be enough to keep everyone satisfied for a while at least.
UM I think what the concern is drafting both the AM and the SO. For the 12 person they want you to draft Region 1-10 or D1-2. Then select the 1 kingdom inside that region.

If I draft region 3 and pick the WA, no-one can pick the DW. Now someone could take the RD and have their capital in region 3 but you are protected from having a non dispersed kingdom from starting in your region.
(06-20-2017, 08:59 AM)unclemike Wrote: [ -> ]Imperial Tark Wrote:
It seems to me that the drafting protocol for pretty much ALL games should be one kingdom per zone; at least that's how its been for virtually all 3rd Cycle games (excluding Duels) prior to the game queue.

Draft F (draft-by-region) should only apply towards a 10-player game. If you're signing up for a 12-player game, you're going to have some regions that are shared between kingdoms (because there's 12 players and only 10 regions).

So unless I'm missing something, draft-by-region is only relevant for a 10-player game. It doesn't apply in any other case.

Warlords you choose 3 kingdoms (out of 12 kingdoms since there's 4 players) which is not relevant for draft-by-region because there's 12 kingdoms involved which will share regions. Titan you choose 6 kingdoms (out of 12 kingdoms) which is not relevant for draft-by-region for the same reason. Slugfest, Primeval, Duel, and Solo games are not relevant for draft-by-region by their very nature. Confederation/Confluence have their own special handling and not relevant for draft-by-region.

I can see the possible case for a 10-player Magic game that may want to draft-by-region but have we ever had a 10-player Magic game that only has one kingdom per region before? Over the past 4 years, there may have been some highly specialized games that did this but it wasn't common. Typically for a Magic (team) game, the players want to specify what kingdoms are comprised on their teams instead of having a random drafting of 10 or 12 player choices in a toss-up of team composition. The global malware attack on the former servers ruined some of our historical archive so I can't lookup past Magic games but typically, players choose what kingdoms they want to play on a team. It wasn't a random determination and not a one-kingdom-per-region scenario because we haven't had that many 10-player Magic games over the years.

So really, we just need the current Draft F option to handle the scenario that it is meant to support: a 10-player Steel game.

JonDoe Wrote:
I mentioned this Tark when we were restarting the 10 player game. We need a 12 player version of option F so we can actually draft the way the choosing was originally set up, by zone/dispersed kingdoms. I have not signed up for any games currently in queue due to the draft process.

As mentioned above, you cannot have a 12-player game and draft-by-region. If that's the reason why you're not signing up for a new game in the queue then you may be waiting for a while.

Ry Vor Wrote:
Let's just agree on the forum what game we want next...

As I mentioned from the very beginning, players should state on the forum that they created a new entry in the Game Queue and for players to signup there. The forum should be used as a means of advertising a new game request. What I don't want is for Ry Vor to manually create a game because if he makes a mistake (yes, it happens more than he's willing to say), it's a mess to clean up because I have to bypass the automated feature of the game creation module. And I really don't want to do that anymore so use the forum to advertise your new game but the Game Queue is necessary to create the game for us. With Draft F being added, we have over 3,000 game possibilities with the Game Queue so hopefully that should be enough to keep everyone satisfied for a while at least.

I apologize if my words were not precise. I guess, I'm saying that there should be just one kingdom per ZONE (I probably used "region" in places I should not have). So Regions 1-10 and the two Dispersed options gives us 12 zones made up of two exclusive kingdoms each. So in most all 12 player games, when you finish the draft, there should be 12 total kingdoms in play and only 1 (of the two possible options) per zone in play. All drafts but Draft F should reflect this. I hope that's clearer.
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