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Cracking Legendary
#1
To new players, or even older ones, it may seem a daunting task to create an army capable of capturing a legendary castles without loosing most of your troops in the effort.  For, a group cannot long sustain losses in excess of 20% and continue to be the same effective fighting force.  Especially when many armies capable of cracking legendary require those troops to be veterans or elites, and every loss of those types is stinging.

Obviously, spells are going to be an important part of your arsenal against legendary, so I will cover them briefly as this will mostly be an article about troop types.  There are mostly just three spells you'll want to consider when taking on this effort: Fear, Valor, and Crack the sky.  While fear and valor at lower levels against smaller PCs may have little effect, they are critical against large PCs.  Crack the sky still stacks its fear effect with the fear spell, and both spells stack with the fear created by troop type, ruthless and siege engineers.  There were rumors that the fear effect may at some point in the future be capped at 35%... if that has become the case, you can pretty much disregard much of this article.

If your target has 200,000 value, crack the sky and a level 5 fear spell should bring that down to a nice and reasonable 100,000.  With additional fear from various sources, it will be even lower thus reducing by far the amount of damage your group will have to sustain to succeed in the effort.  However, the damage you will have to do to see yourself to the other side of those walls is not so easily dealt with.  Even if you have managed, for instance, to lower the Castles value to say 80,000 your damage output will be divided by 3.3 meaning you will still have to administer around 260,000 damage to bring it down. And that is where valor comes into play.

Best I can figure, your group value as stated on your turn sheet as "value vs PC" DOES include your moral and leadership bonus, but NOT any bonus for forged weapons, artifacts, troop rating (vet and elite) or troop special abilities.  So to calculate your troops BASE value, you will need to subtract out your leadership and moral bonuses.  So for instance if your group value vs PC is 150,000 and you have a Warlord and 125% moral, your groups base value is about 100,000.  This is the number you will modify by all your bonusses.

Now add up all your damage bonuses, including moral and leadership which you deducted previously. For instance:
Warlord +25%
Moral +25%
Valor Spell +25%
Forged Weapons +25%

Lets say that's it, your group value will be +100% of 100,000 or 200,000 vs PC.  Again, I do not know the program, this is the best I can figure.  I'm not going to get into forged armor, windstorm, shield or any other defensive bonuses in this article, but these do not help with damage output, only preventing you from retreating too soon.

If you are adept at math, you will see here where the value of veteran and elite troops is felt, as they increase your BASE value, not the bonuses. A veteran unit will be 125% of the value of a regular one, and an Elite unit will be 175% of that value.  This dramatically increases the attack value that all these bonuses will be applied to, and just as importantly, the amount of damage your group can absorb.  Again, to the best of my estimation.

So for instance a group of 10 regular paladins with no leaders and 100% moral might be 22,000 vs PC, whereas a group of veterans will be 27,500 and elites a whopping 38,500.  Now add a warlord and forged weapons: regular paladins 33,000... Elite paladins 57000+ vs PC.

That is, as far as I can tell, how things work and its definitely enough information to get you started on your own analysis.


Now, which kingdoms can most easily take legendary and what is the best way to go about building your army? Obviously, any kingdom that can cast crack the sky has a huge advantage, but I'll be looking mostly at available troop types for this analysis.  Any kingdom can hire Zamorans, so I will not mention those.  Two Zamoran regulars will give you a 10% moral boost.  Also, I think Westmen give 10% defense vs archer fire, which is most of what a PC does to you, but again, I think when castle values got so incredibly high, your groups defense value is no longer really a major concern.  Be advised thought, that kingdoms who don't have a lot of fear and valor may benefit from Westmen.

The troop types you will want to consider are the following:

Minotaur - Summon, limited to 5.  Two give a 15% moral boost.
Troll - Companion, veteran brigade required to recruit, limited to 3. Give +30% vs PC (can be thought of as moral)
Orcs - Companion, limited to 15.  Each brigade in addition to 4 gives a +5% moral bonus, capped at +15%.
Hill Giants - Companion, Elite brigade required to recruit, limited to 3. Two give a 10% fear effect.
Mammoths - Companion, Elite brigade required to recruit, limited to 3. One gives a 10% fear effect.
Specter (my favorite) - Summon, limited to 7.  Gives a 10% fear effect and specter brigades have +20% vs PC (flying)
Ghoul - Summon, limited to 5.  Gives a 10% fear effect.

So what is it you have access to?

AMAZONS - Mino at 6.  Hill Giants and Mammoths, build BIG and lots of elites, you'll likely never see crack the sky.

ANCIENT ONES - Minos at 5, ghouls at 6, also mammoths.  Crack the sky possible.  Not bad

ATLANTIANS - Minos at 6 and Hill Giants.  Build Biiig.

BLACK DRAGONS - Ruthless and fly, both inherent, so all you can do is build a massive army of elites.

CIMMERIANS - Ruthless, Mammoths and hill giants.  Minos at 6 which you probably won't see.  Think BIG army.

DARK ELVES - Orcs, minos, ghouls and specters.  Not bad.  Crack the sky possible, but above your range.

DEMON PRINCES - Same as DA plus ruthless, fairly easy, crack the sky possible.

DRUID - Crack the sky, Mammoths, Hill Giants, Mino at 3.  fairly easy.

DWARVES - Seige engineers (+10% fear vs PC, also war machines massive "vs PC" value and tactic "barrage") Mammoths and Hill Giants.... build it BIG.  You might not actually want war machines as they take up a slot and are limited to 5.  You still get the fear bonus.

ELVES -  Minos at 5, crack the sky possible.  Elven troops are second only to RD for value vs PC, but still.... build BIG...

GNOMES - Minos 5, specters 7 and Ghouls 6, seige engineers. Possible crack the sky. Not bad.

HALFLINGS - Mino at 6.... good luck.

ILLUSIONIST - Crack the sky, Mino 4, specters 6, ghouls 5.  Pretty easy.

LIZARD MEN - Ruthless, Mino 5, Specters 7, Ghouls 6.  Tough...  Magic cost is 11,000 so... maybe just forgo the summons and build it massive, lots of elites.

NECROMANCER - crack the sky, ruthless, mino, specter, ghouls, orcs, trolls... easy peasy.

NOMANDS - mino at 5... good luck.

PIRATES - mino at 6 and hill giants, tough job ahead.

RANGERS - minos at 5 and mammoths.  NO fear or crack the sky (other kingdoms may also suffer from this that I am unaware of)  Good luck, build it BIG.

RED DRAGONS - same as BL, lots of elites, build it big.

SACRED ORDER - minos at 6, seige engineers... BIG.. but you cant afford it.

SORCERER - Crack the sky, Specters 6, ghouls 5, orcs, trolls, hill giants.  Easy

TYRANT - ruthless, seige engineers, mino, orcs, trolls, hill giants, not bad.

UNDERWORLD - mino 5, specter 7, ghoul 6, hill giants, crack the sky possible, not bad.

Warlock - Crack the sky, mino 3, specter 5, ghoul 5, troll, orc, mammoth, hill Giant. Easy

And there you have it, if you're itching to take down the big walls, I have to admit it is pretty satisfying.
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#2
Great stuff putting this all together. The Zamoran brigade summary says 3 regular brigades needed for the bonus. Not sure if that's right, as I've often seen brigade ability bonuses in battle summaries even when the number of brigades isn't there (according to the brigade summary).
I just need to remember specters- great brigade.
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#3
(06-06-2021, 04:08 PM)Pine Needle Wrote: Great stuff putting this all together. The Zamoran brigade summary says 3 regular brigades needed for the bonus. Not sure if that's right, as I've often seen brigade ability bonuses in battle summaries even when the number of brigades isn't there (according to the brigade summary).
I just need to remember specters- great brigade.

I believe you are correct sir, it says 3 not 2.  Everything else is two, I think except specters and mammoths, only 1 needed.
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#4
Excellent info Senior Tactician. You forgot great bats!
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#5
Outstanding job ST.   Orcs limited to just 15% now?  I have been thinking it was higher.
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#6
(06-06-2021, 09:20 PM)RELLGAR Wrote: Excellent info Senior Tactician. You forgot great bats!

I considered bats but I think probably not worth a slot in a legendary buster, they only give the 20% fly bonus to themselves.  Specters are the same but we want them mostly for the fear anyway.  Bats would be a good town army, with a single wizard for invisible, that would be pretty awesome.  Haven't tried that yet.
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#7
Bats got buffed on defense this last time and perform much better than before.
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#8
I thought Fear was already capped at 35%. Its not?
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#9
(06-08-2021, 05:10 PM)Lord Garth Wrote: I thought Fear was already capped at 35%.   Its not?

Nope.  Each individual spell (fear, crack the sky) is capped at 25% each, but total fear is not capped.  With the WA (and the WA alone, I think) you can have 90% fear with crack (25), fear (25), mammoths (10), hill giants (10), ghouls (10), specters (10).  Taking a legendary castle with 6 brigades (minimum number to get all the fear) will be a future goal of mine.  I once had a very nice WA 40% fear group (10 brigades) but I was under early attack (thanks Drogo) and the game ended before I could get a power 8 for crack.

It would have to be a small legendary, and you would have to have really big wizards, but I'm thinking if you had 6 elite brigades, cast fear and crack and a power 9 earthquake, you might get one.

Say 160,000 legendary, 90% fear brings it to about 16,000 and defense dividers bring it back up to about 53,000.  Your 6 brigades would have to absorb only the 16,000 damage so with elites and the shield from your presence (maybe 3 warlords as well), you should be ok.  Dealing 53000 damage might be tough.  Power 9 Earthquake would take care of about 20k (with such a small group, I'm only guessing earthquake would be better than valor), the presence of 3x power 9 wizards maybe 8-10k, crack the sky has a tornado effect, say maybe another 15k?  That's pretty close, your group would only have to do about 10-15k.

You could always meteor it, but that's cheating.
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#10
(06-08-2021, 11:34 PM)Senior Tactician Wrote:
(06-08-2021, 05:10 PM)Lord Garth Wrote: I thought Fear was already capped at 35%.   Its not?

Nope.  Each individual spell (fear, crack the sky) is capped at 25% each, but total fear is not capped.  With the WA (and the WA alone, I think) you can have 90% fear with crack (25), fear (25), mammoths (10), hill giants (10), ghouls (10), specters (10).  Taking a legendary castle with 6 brigades (minimum number to get all the fear) will be a future goal of mine.  I once had a very nice WA 40% fear group (10 brigades) but I was under early attack (thanks Drogo) and the game ended before I could get a power 8 for crack.

It would have to be a small legendary, and you would have to have really big wizards, but I'm thinking if you had 6 elite brigades, cast fear and crack and a power 9 earthquake, you might get one.

Say 160,000 legendary, 90% fear brings it to about 16,000 and defense dividers bring it back up to about 53,000.  Your 6 brigades would have to absorb only the 16,000 damage so with elites and the shield from your presence (maybe 3 warlords as well), you should be ok.  Dealing 53000 damage might be tough.  Power 9 Earthquake would take care of about 20k (with such a small group, I'm only guessing earthquake would be better than valor), the presence of 3x power 9 wizards maybe 8-10k, crack the sky has a tornado effect, say maybe another 15k?  That's pretty close, your group would only have to do about 10-15k.

You could always meteor it, but that's cheating.

If you have time do do forged weapons and armor and take the standard of renown with customization your force would have a 60% bonus.  It sounds like enough.  Maybe then you could even do it with a division but you would lose on of the fears so that's another 16K you have to defeat.
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