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High council value
#1
I think it might be undervalued, and I have no doubt its undervalued if you're first on.

By bidding high on first turn, you have at least a 15k discount because you can propose the first issue and raise your influence. Second, this discount is bigger in the first turns as people don't have much gold.

After more kingdoms join, you can't raise your own influence every turn, but you can usually win the issue for less than 15k, and most people will not oppose your vote unless you're at war. So this is kind of like an extra action for your king, or an artifact, or magic spell, raising influence but allowing your king to do something else if needed.

Finally in mid, late game, you can't pay to raise influence anymore. You need to build castles, cast a special spell, or get HC votes to do it. Again, most people won't oppose unless you're at war. The HC increases in value at this stage, but you're also more likely to be at war later.

So if you have charisma or are rich or both(!) I'd seriously consider a bid of 50k or as much as you can afford on turn one as it is extremely valuable to be on the HC.
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#2
(06-02-2020, 06:49 PM)Pine Needle Wrote: I think it might be undervalued, and I have no doubt its undervalued if you're first on.

By bidding high on first turn, you have at least a 15k discount because you can propose the first issue and raise your influence. Second, this discount is bigger in the first turns as people don't have much gold.

After more kingdoms join, you can't raise your own influence every turn, but you can usually win the issue for less than 15k, and most people will not oppose your vote unless you're at war. So this is kind of like an extra action for your king, or an artifact, or magic spell, raising influence but allowing your king to do something else if needed.

Finally in mid, late game, you can't pay to raise influence anymore. You need to build castles, cast a special spell, or get HC votes to do it. Again, most people won't oppose unless you're at war. The HC increases in value at this stage, but you're also more likely to be at war later.

So if you have charisma or are rich or both(!) I'd seriously consider a bid of 50k or as much as you can afford on turn one as it is extremely valuable to be on the HC.

I forgot about the fools. I kind of think fools are overvalued, but they do give you a trickle of influence to buy agents or whatnot. I don't think the fool influence increase at 20+ influence is that relevant to the above, unless you have 5 of them or something, then you're probably wasting standing orders on fools.
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#3
I never use the fool and rarely bid on the HC.  The fool costs 5000 to raise your influence an average of 0.15.  This is not only overly gold intensive, its too order intensive as well.  In virtually any situation, I'd rather have an extra (standing) reconnaissance order than .15 influence at the cost of 5000 gold.

For the high council, its similar.  You either bid high to ensure you get the order (and save little to no gold), or you bid mid level to low, and waste an order when you fail to control the issue.

If you have charisma, get the seat, and bid very high for the issue every turn, maybe you can save a little bit of gold and race your influence up quickly.  But unless you are in a position to really take advantage of that (maybe a very early political attack, for instance, or recovering from multiple king losses) I don't think its worth it.

Offensively, its also pretty slow and virtually ineffective against anyone with mid to high level wizards (with charm region and enhance kings aura).
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#4
I think the fool is just fine, though I wait to have a 'spare' order before putting it on S/O to raise influence. It adds up and it's sort of a 'set it and forget it' kind of thing. With the HC, it sort of depends on the kingdom and the game. With the magic kingdoms, I am less inclined to go for it as I'd rather put that gold right into raising wizards. But any political kingdom, particularly one with charisma, it's well worth a decent early bid. If you can get it on turn 1, you get a real advantage from having a couple of extra early orders. Sometimes you can partly those extra orders into a real advantage.
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#5
Fool cost is 3000 not 5000. So cost is about 20k for something that normally cost 15k. I find it perfectly acceptable. Easy to keep a fool order going all game long and it slowly builds. In the early game I have had times where that small .2 or .3 made enough deference to ensure success and not require an extra Emmy.
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#6
In every game, I set my Fool on auto by turn 1 or 2. Sort of like a forced savings account, it is a small cost and the little influence bonuses add up over time.
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#7
I like the "it depends" answer. It depends on kingdom and strategy. Like all the choices.
Thanks for the feedback.
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#8
For the record, it's 3000 gold to average 0.15 Influence gain (not 5000 gold).  So its not far off from the cost of Raising Influence as a sole Ruler action. 

Sometimes early for mage kingdoms you might not want to spend the 9000 over three turns to use the Fool, but normally, yes, it is an easy fire and forget standing order.

I agree with High Council opinions.  If you are a political kingdom especially with Charisma, it is a bargain to get the first chair.  The value probably declines in my opinion after the second chair, when you no longer know if your issue is the high bid or it will go through the vote.    I also think other council members kind of recognize when one kingdom on the council seems to be a bit greedy in dominating issues.
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#9
I would say that overall Maelstrom somewhat diminishes the value of the fool.  I say this because now many buildings give influence when you build them.  The 480 king order is a better value up to influence 20 and after that if you have the economy rolling the buildings are more important.
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