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Battle for Stormgate
I think it’s critical when maelstrom is optimized that if you choose a seafaring kingdom AND a region that is predominantly water/coastal that your capital is at minimum a coastal town and probably in the water. That is not currently the case and it sucks and makes no sense.
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(05-13-2019, 02:22 PM)Acererak Wrote: I think it’s critical when maelstrom is optimized that if you choose a seafaring kingdom AND a region that is predominantly water/coastal that your capital is at minimum a coastal town and probably in the water. That is not currently the case and it sucks and makes no sense.
I mostly agree with you, but you're the Cimmerians and I wouldn't have really considered them a 'seafaring kingdom' even though they are decent in the water. I would argue that only the Atlantians and the Pirates really NEED to have a capital on the sea or coast. For anybody else, it's a nice bonus. But the argument then becomes, do other kingdoms need to be accommodated in that way? Does the Nomad need a desert capital if he's in a dry region? Do the LI need a swamp?
My answer is 'no' - I think that only the PI and the AT are unique enough and based around the water that they should get an automatic water capital. I think with everybody else, it might be nice to be in your preferred territory, but it's not vital and should not be guaranteed. And I would limit it to regions 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 & 10. While some of those other regions have a bit of water (such as #4), they are not primarily water zones and all that would do would be to make the hidden capitals of the PI and AT very easy to find.
I will say in a recent game, my AT capital was at ZH and while that was a bit of a bother, it really didn't slow me down THAT much. Just meant I had to put my Port somewhere else.
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(05-13-2019, 03:28 PM)DuPont Wrote:
(05-13-2019, 02:22 PM)Acererak Wrote: I think it’s critical when maelstrom is optimized that if you choose a seafaring kingdom AND a region that is predominantly water/coastal that your capital is at minimum a coastal town and probably in the water. That is not currently the case and it sucks and makes no sense.
I mostly agree with you, but you're the Cimmerians and I wouldn't have really considered them a 'seafaring kingdom' even though they are decent in the water. I would argue that only the Atlantians and the Pirates really NEED to have a capital on the sea or coast. For anybody else, it's a nice bonus. But the argument then becomes, do other kingdoms need to be accommodated in that way? Does the Nomad need a desert capital if he's in a dry region? Do the LI need a swamp?
My answer is 'no' - I think that only the PI and the AT are unique enough and based around the water that they should get an automatic water capital. I think with everybody else, it might be nice to be in your preferred territory, but it's not vital and should not be guaranteed. And I would limit it to regions 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 & 10. While some of those other regions have a bit of water (such as #4), they are not primarily water zones and all that would do would be to make the hidden capitals of the PI and AT very easy to find.
I will say in a recent game, my AT capital was at ZH and while that was a bit of a bother, it really didn't slow me down THAT much. Just meant I had to put my Port somewhere else.

You can also relocate your capital too if you think you are in danger of having it captured.  I did that with CI against a very strong and aggressive RD.  It means you have to think twice about adding temple and bazaar and some other things in the customize order but it's another option on how you play.
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(05-13-2019, 03:36 PM)Wookie Panz Wrote:
(05-13-2019, 03:28 PM)DuPont Wrote:
(05-13-2019, 02:22 PM)Acererak Wrote: I think it’s critical when maelstrom is optimized that if you choose a seafaring kingdom AND a region that is predominantly water/coastal that your capital is at minimum a coastal town and probably in the water. That is not currently the case and it sucks and makes no sense.
I mostly agree with you, but you're the Cimmerians and I wouldn't have really considered them a 'seafaring kingdom' even though they are decent in the water. I would argue that only the Atlantians and the Pirates really NEED to have a capital on the sea or coast. For anybody else, it's a nice bonus. But the argument then becomes, do other kingdoms need to be accommodated in that way? Does the Nomad need a desert capital if he's in a dry region? Do the LI need a swamp?
My answer is 'no' - I think that only the PI and the AT are unique enough and based around the water that they should get an automatic water capital. I think with everybody else, it might be nice to be in your preferred territory, but it's not vital and should not be guaranteed. And I would limit it to regions 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 & 10. While some of those other regions have a bit of water (such as #4), they are not primarily water zones and all that would do would be to make the hidden capitals of the PI and AT very easy to find.
I will say in a recent game, my AT capital was at ZH and while that was a bit of a bother, it really didn't slow me down THAT much. Just meant I had to put my Port somewhere else.

You can also relocate your capital too if you think you are in danger of having it captured.  I did that with CI against a very strong and aggressive RD.  It means you have to think twice about adding temple and bazaar and some other things in the customize order but it's another option on how you play.

Well yea of course I can. To DuPont’s point I was the PI in region 1 and had a land capital as well. It was coastal but still is a bit of a pain.

I think the point is that a “seafaring” kingdom clearly wouldn’t establish their capital in the mountains. And yes, I think seafaring in combo with mostly water region should force minimum coastal- and any kingdom with mastery+ in a terrain should also be forced to that terrain type. It just makes sense.
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There is a question of whether it should be done, and if so, in what circumstances for what kingdoms based on what criteria?

Then there is the stopper that it can't be done because any kingdom can be in any region, so terrain cannot be dictated in the kingdom setup.


Another angle is your capital is easily identified if players know it has to be in a certain terrain.  Often this would mean only a few areas could be the capital in region X.
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Any way to have us select the spot of our starting capital with a turn 1 command?
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(05-13-2019, 08:26 PM)Valuthor Wrote: Any way to have us select the spot of our starting capital with a turn 1 command?

No.  When the game is created your capital is determined.  Your 1st group is there, your king is there, any capital bonuses are given there.
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(05-13-2019, 07:45 PM)Ry Vor Wrote: There is a question of whether it should be done, and if so, in what circumstances for what kingdoms based on what criteria?

Then there is the stopper that it can't be done because any kingdom can be in any region, so terrain cannot be dictated in the kingdom setup.


Another angle is your capital is easily identified if players know it has to be in a certain terrain.  Often this would mean only a few areas could be the capital in region X.

Totally get it. Just wanted to throw it out for consideration.
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